Monday, October 01, 2007

Why No Rush To Condemnation?

Last week Congress passed a resolution condemning MoveOn.org’s “General Betrayus” ad from the New York Times. This action brings to mind many questions:

Is it appropriate for Congress to condemn a group of American citizens for peacefully exercising their right to free speech, which even during wartime must be protected?

Is it appropriate for Congress to waste time passing resolutions on issues tangential to the war when they should be passing them on the war itself (pay raises for the troops, shorter deployments, redeployment, etc.)? And on other important issues, for that matter?

Did Congress not hear Rush Limbaugh’s 9/26/07 radio broadcast in which he stated that US military personnel who have expressed opinions against the war in Iraq – many of whom based those on their experiences during actual tours of duty over there – were “phony soldiers?” If so, where's the resolution, folks?

Last year John Kerry (D-MA) said kids who don't do well in school might "end up in Iraq." The outrage, particularly from the right, was deafening; so much so that many people had to be reminded Kerry wasn't actually running for anything. No matter how easy they are to use for political gain, Kerry's words were essentially true. Sometimes patriotism drives kids to enlist (and it disgusts me to no end that we let "kids" do such a thing). But quite often, it's the inability to afford college or to find a job, or the need to get "straightened out" that's the motivating factor. My own father (who doesn't know of this blog's existence) ended up in the US Army because he couldn't quit goofing off and get serious about college.

Was Kerry wrong? In many cases, no.

Was MoveOn.org wrong? Possibly – there are different ways to view Gen. Petraeus' report on Iraq, as facts can always be "interpreted" to one's own benefit.

Was Congress wrong to condemn MoveOn.org? I think the answer to that is obvious. And they are remiss in failing to condemn Limbaugh's comments, if that's the way we deal with those who criticize the military these days.

It seems the old adage that the first casualty of every war is indeed the truth. "Sense" must be a close second.

15 comments:

Polly said...

Wonderful post.
You are fortunate to have 'free speech' written into your laws. We do not have that here in Oz.

No matter what is said or who says it it is much better people have the right to say it, even though it may offend, or may be a misinterpretation.
It is up to the people to decide what is viable, what is crap.

Anything that gets people thinking and talking is better than silence any day.

Good stuff, Bogs!

LeftLeaningLady said...

I am pretty sure that truth went out the window long before the first shot was fired and I don't know that I have seen a lot of sense since before the 2000 election.

It makes my head explode to know that Congress is living off my tax dollars and sitting up there passing useless BS resolutions, but especially this one. I don't remember any resolutions about the Swift Boat Veterans and they were lying like dogs.

Pete Bogs said...

polly - how have you been? glad to see your comments on my recent posts... since I wrote this the Democrats' leader has said he wants a resolution condemning Rush Limbaugh's comments... and he challenged Republicants to join him so as not to be hypocritical... I'll be interested to see the reaction, but I expect silence...

I have been told by other Aussies about the freedom of speech issue... so, what happens there when you publicly criticize someone?

LLL - another fine example of trashing a person in uniform for political gain that not only failed to cause Republicant outrage, but was sponsored by them...

Auntybelle Cracker said...

THE one soldier Rush referred to NEVER went to Iraq--was in service fer 44 days...so, yep, that were a phony soldier--no need fer a resolution on that

Pete Bogs said...

aunt b - he used the plural, "phony soldiers," in reference to soldiers who criticized the war...

she said...

bogshond this is the most outrageous post ever. it makes me sick. i heard that show and these desperate 11% approval rating shake-down artists in the demoncratic party cant stand it that no lib has ever had a successful radio show so they find 2 words to use as a foundation for a big lie to annoy limbaugh. you didnt even bother to check it out bogs.

and you help em bogs. you are helping whiners complainers and losers who could not compete in the marketplace of ideas so like babies they attack the successful. first it was the fairness doctrine but they knew even dumbasses would see that as the anti free speech control attempt it was. so now they want to attack any conservative view. they know they are bankrupt of real ideas, so their only shot is to silence other points of view.

i dont recall the posts you did about anti-troop statements DEMONcrats have said:

murtha: "our Marines are guilty of murder “in cold blood” *check it though* hes getting sued for his sorry lying ass. cause as usual the libs throw in with liars in the press with fake stories. the marines were found not guilty. oh and bogs? murtha did this at a press conference. dirty bastard. wouldnt apologize either.

dick durbin: at least he went to the Senate floor to offer his apologies to anyone who may have been offended by his comparison of treatment of detainees at the U.S. military base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to Nazis, Soviet gulags and Cambodia's Pol Pot.

reid: the war is lost *said obviously while troops are in the field* hows that for pumping up the enemy.

john kerry: if you study and stay in school then you dont end up in iraq. elitist jerk. thats why you have W as your president you guys ran this idiot.
oh and he partnered up with a fake vietnam soldier and got busted by ABC! look it up!

many more examples. many many more. when i can take some time out from EARNING (not asking some poor bastard to cover my bills for me) whatever money i can before the idiots in congress think of some other way to relieve me of it....i will do a full post on this.

Now...

lets have a look see at the fake soldier....and bogs you crack me up with that it was "soldiers" not soldier. grrerhahaha

who is one of the phony soldiers? former Army soldier-turned-antiwar-activist Jesse Macbeth. Macbeth falsely claimed to have participated in war crimes in Iraq and received a Purple Heart, but in reality, he was discharged after only 44 days of service, never placing a foot in Iraq.

Macbeth was sentenced to five months in prison for fraudulently collecting more than $10,000 in benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs.

and the new republic gave him a big fat forum for his lies. and he told this bullshyt story in a youtube video which libs LOVED. didnt see a post about that bogs.

all you truth lovers can read the LONG ASS LIST of phony soldier indicents at the army times:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/09/marine_vafakers_070924/

the US is in serious trouble. this post makes me sick.

Pete Bogs said...

she - wow...

Limbaugh did say phony soldiers, and the context was soldiers who oppose the war... that means the only real soldiers are the ones who support this mistake of a war... not true...

I doubt this was an attempt to get Limbaugh off the air, though some have said he should be off Armed Forces radio... he makes too much money for stations to be pulled off the air... where did you hear that stuff about jealousy over ratings, from Rush himself?

what this post is about is the way parties emphasize the mistakes of others while deemphasizing their own... they can only be brought to feel outrage if there is political advantage...

if Kerry was as bad as you say he is, there would've been a landslide against him... instead, it was a very close race... it still amazes me that the same party who criticized Clinton for "dodging the draft" elected "top of the waiting list" Bush and "deferment" Cheney over "was actually there" Kerry... it just shows how stupid some people (voters) are not to be able to see these things for themselves... they let idiots like Karl Rove lead them around and never see the folly... it's sad for all of us...

no one has address the first few questions I posed - is this Congress' job? don't they have better things to do? my view is, don't censure MoveOn or Limbaugh... it's not their place... I just enjoy the hypocrisy being pointed out in public as it has been...

we had lots of massacres during Vietnam and many during Iraq (a real standout is the young girl who was raped and then she and her entire family killed)... saying so is not unpatriotic, doing so is... if Murtha got his facts wrong he should apologize... but there are lots of killings that DID happen... no one's apologizing for those...

Congress' approval rating is low... that's because they're getting very little done... and that's because of obstructionist Republicant lawmakers and Bush... the same stupid people I reference above can't see who's really responsible for the logjam... today Bush vetoed an education bill that both parties and their constituents want, misguided motherfucker that he is...

she said...

bogs said:

..."no one has address the first few questions I posed - is this Congress' job? don't they have better things to do? my view is, don't censure MoveOn or Limbaugh... it's not their place..."

RIGHT!

and remember bogs i gave W an F in my post at k9's. he and most of the republicants have abandoned conservative ideals...i can barely distinguish them from the demoncrats.

i didnt need rush to tell me that the libs were jealous of conserative talk radio's domination of the airwaves...i watched them stomp and sputter all morning on c-span during the fairness doctrine call in show. just the IDEA of the fairness doctrine should be enough to disgust you bogshond!

Rush should be off armed forces radio? grrrrehahaha he is the number one subscribed to show in the mil.

bogs you can write me off as roves sock puppet (or was it cheney's?) but it doesnt stop what is and can be verified easily with a few clicks.

but im sedated now. have a nice evening.

Pete Bogs said...

she - I wasn't referring to you being a Rove drone... I was talking about the uncritical masses out there...

if media consolidation continues, thanks in part to Mr. Murdoch, the Fairness Doctrine will be necessary... if you've got just one big conglomerate putting out information, and it sees something it doesn't like, it won't report it... people will become even more ignorant because of the lack of information coming through...

Preacher101 said...

Hey, I came across this post. Bogs, Rush was referring to the fake soldiers. Anyone who knows him knows he supports the troops 100%.

As to your question of what congress is doing, nothing, its not because of the Republicans. Should Congress be doing these resolutions? Absolutely not. Its the same as the hearing for steroid use in baseball. Is that congress' job? No. I find it funny that the Democraps supposedly oppose the war and have the majority. But do they put a vote on the floor to pull funding and stop the war? No! They just do a meaningless resolution! What's that about? I'll tell you what. Because they know that our presence in Iraq, amongst OTHER important reasons, is a deterrent to terrorists, sucks up al-Quaeda's resources, and gives us a strategic base from which to operate. The real reason they won't do it is two-fold: 1. they are bitter and jealous that President George Bush won in 2000 and can't get over it. 2. They want power over anything else. And that means being re-elected. They know that cutting funding for the war will piss off a lot of people, even liberals, for leaving our troops out there high and dry. So they take the moral "low road" and do a resolution against the war in Iraq, instead of taking the moral "high road" and introducing a bill to cut funding and bring the troops out. They won't do it because if they do they won't be re-elected.

The Democrapic leaders have been slamming, slandering, and condemning the troops since day one. I was in the Marines during the first Gulf war, and believe me, its sucks when you're far away from home and all you hear in the news is negativity. And we didn't have it bad at all back then. I can only imagine what my brothers in Iraq are feeling right now when they hear themselves called those names and hear that the war has been lost.

Bogs, you wrote "...if you've got just one big conglomerate putting out information, and it sees something it doesn't like, it won't report it... people will become even more ignorant because of the lack of information coming through..."
Dude, we already have that big conglomerate-its the liberal news media (ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, etc). Have you been to Iraq? I have friends there now, and its nowhere near as bad there as the news reports it. They focus in on the 5-7% of what's happening, leaving out the 90% or so that is going our way. You and others have been duped so long by the big "conglomerate" that when the real truth comes out, you don't know what to do with it. That's a shame.

Also, lets' set the record straight on Bush vs. Kerry's war record. Bush was in the National Gurad as a pilot. The plane he finished his training on was a few weeks later taken out of service, and so he wasn't rated to fly on the new planes. Happens a lot in the military. Yes, Kerry went over there and I appreciate his service to the country and honor him for it. However, he then came back and threw all of his buddies still over there under the bus, by lying, to Congress, about their war atrocities. Oh by the way, that was the start of his popularity and helped to get him elected.

Pete Bogs said...

preacher101 - thanks for stopping by...

I think us being over there saps our resources more than it does theirs...

your implication that Democrats/liberals don't support is oversimplified and incorrect... we don't all support them the same way - Bush supports them with jingoist rhetoric... he could've supported them with proper planning and proper equipment (body armor, armored vehicles, etc.)

I don't buy the myth of the liberal media, so that whole section of your comment is lost on me... that's right wing paranoia and self-serving BS...

I always say it can't be worse to say something that to do it... the Mai Lai(?) Massacre DID happen, for example... punish the whistleblowers or punish the perps? I think I know which side you'd take... we've had a few incidents in Iraq, too, though for the most part soldiers are doing their job... but does that mean we only report happy, positive news? no... it's the job of the press to report facts, even when they make us look bad...

Infinitesimal said...

Bogs,

I am pretty sure we don't actually HAVE the right to free speech any more. Because of the Patriot act.
Have you read it? It is confusing, I ain't read the whole thing, but the gist of it is: If you are sympathizing with "terrorists" then you can be imprisoned for an undetermined amount of time, with no trial. And who defines terror?
It is an executive definition that can be defined at any time and place by the president.

By the way, I believe Limbaugh's remarks were implying that the entire military should be voting Republican as a unified body.

Infinitesimal said...

She I must rebut

HOWARD STERN

King of all media

liberal

potty mouth

same type of content as Rush Limbaugh

utter trash.

Now, I have listened to Rush, Oh yes....

I was a Rush fan actually, I liked him, thought he was intelligent, and thoughtful in his remarks.

and then..... he found the crystal meth, or coke or whatever wound him up so tight, and he started to sound like a rabid cokehead to me, being that i was in company of several rabid cokeheads as a young teen, i could tell that was his deal.

and my assumption is, that he turned to pills to get off the speed.
(I wonder why he never lost much weight during the coked out frenzy?)

Anyway.... I also listened to Howard Stern for a couple of years, for the EXACT same reasons.
Before he turned into an insufferable creep, he had some really interesting insights into the political system.... believe it or not.
But then he figured out how much ass he could get and the whole show turned into a strip tease.

What I liked about Rush was that he appealed to the conservative THINKERS

What I liked about Howard was that he had the utter control of the minds of the collective lowest common denominator.

Both men had a lot of potential, but now, both men have turned into sad sad losers.

Anyway, Howard Stern is WAY more popular than Rush Limbaugh.
Although I dunno if the liberals want to claim him.

But if you ever want to hear subtle radio without hate and with only logical thinking regarding world affairs, check out "Democracy Now!"

they will not bite you.

Pete Bogs said...

contessa - Democracy Now is awesome... I listen nearly every day at lunch...

Preacher101 said...

Bogs, you said, "but does that mean we only report happy, positive news? no... it's the job of the press to report facts, even when they make us look bad..."

Look, the press is reporting facts, but they're not reporting all of the facts. If you were told about me that I got drunk and almost arrested in Tijuana, what would you think about me? You'd think I was a partying loser. But that's not all the facts about me. If you had all the facts, you'd factor in that one stupid episode of my life and look at the big picture. Its the same with the media's coverage of the war. All's we get is pictures of bombs and names of dead military. I'm telling you that there is much more good going on over there than is being reported. The media shows it as bad, because over 90% of the media is liberal. And liberals have staked their political future on our loss in Iraq.

As for whistle-blowers, look, there's always a bad 10% in every organization. The point is Kerry came over and testified that there were numerous atrocities, and he even implied himself in some of them. Go ahead, look up and re-read his testimony. If he was so self-righteous, he would have turned himself in for perpetrating war atrocities instead of blaming people over there. Having said that, of course anyone in the military who purposely breaks Geneva conventions and kills innocents, etc. should be punished.

The prosecution of a war on terrorists is the most difficult type of warfare alive. To imply that President Bush was involved in the day-to-day planning of the war, to include vehicles, body armor, etc. is ludicrous on your part, Bogs. You know how organizations work. I blame the generals and coloniels in those cases. Oh, by the way, there is a new general over there, and the strategy has changed, which is what the libs cried for, and y'all still aren't happy.

Jingoism-hey that's a pretty big word. Here's what Theodore Roosevelt had to say in 1895: "There is much talk about 'jingoism'. If by 'jingoism' they mean a policy in pursuance of which Americans will with resolution and common sense insist upon our rights being respected by foreign powers, then we are 'jingoes'."

Jingoism is what allowed you to not be forced to speak Japanese right now, what brought down the Berlin wall, forestalled a nuclear holocaust with the Russians, and kept our country safe with no terrorist attack on American soil since 9-11-2001.