Wednesday, April 18, 2007

Just When You Thought It Was Safe To Be Alive

This post rambles a bit, and there's not a thing funny about it. In other words, it reflects my current state of mind.

As we watch horrific events like Columbine, the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11 unfold, we wonder how any human being could do such a thing to another. It seems the madmen of this world are constantly trying to top themselves.

The sad story that is contemporary life has new chapters added all too frequently; on Monday a man walked onto the campus of Virginia Tech University with two handguns and shot 32 people to death before killing himself. The massacre took place over several hours, and over a wide area of the campus.

I’m beginning to think that Andy Warhol’s statement about everyone being famous for 15 minutes should be changed to: Every American will have his/her own "crazed gunman" encounter at one point in their life. That somehow seems more relevant now, though fame may well accompany the latter in the form of victimhood.

Just two weeks ago a man shot dead his ex-girlfriend in broad daylight at CNN Center. Remember that one?


Both sides of the gun control debate will naturally come out strong in response to this tragedy. Some will no doubt inexplicably cite this incident as an example of why we need prayer in public schools, and/or how violent video games and movies are sending us to hell in a Prada handbag.

Many of those same individuals will dismiss any responsibility for how their own NRA-card-carrying asses have contributed to making a culture of violence so easily sustainable. They will use the tragedy to bolster their position that people need to be able to have guns so they can defend themselves from such madmen.

Florida lawmakers are trying to make it a crime for employers to prohibit their employees from coming to work packing heat. It certainly would be nice to have a gun handy in case you go over the edge one day and decide to take your coworkers out, eh? I imagine some of the people who opposed the public smoking ban here because it "takes away business owners' rights" might even support this puppy, without irony.

In Virginia, where the latest shootings took place, guns and ammunition are extremely easy to acquire legally. This includes assault weapons, which serve only one purpose: to kill a lot of people, fast. The VTU shooter didn’t have an assault weapon, but imagine if he had! Who needs these weapons, no matter how cool they seem, or what some think the Constitution says?

President Bush must know, as he was uninterested in renewing their ban when it expired in 2004. In response to this week's tragedy, he issued the following statement through a spokesperson: “The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed.”

That the president’s first instinct is to pander to his gun nut base is telling and troubling. It’s completely inappropriate for him to have even addressed that, especially so soon after the tragedy. That he felt the need to put that qualifying language at the beginning of the sentence shows where his loyalties lie. And he's not the only one.

By the way, the president doesn’t giving a flying fuck about any or "all laws" – they don't apply to him, it seems his overly obvious, simplistic statement notwithstanding.

The gun lobby in the United States is way too powerful, and I don’t see any sensible changes coming to our gun laws anytime soon. For the foreseeable future, I think we are screwed. We are stuck with this unacceptable situation.

From 9/11 we learned that we need to take terrorism seriously and put much stronger emphasis on national security; will we take a similar lesson here? If terrorist attacks lead to security reforms, will gun attacks lead to gun reforms? Will high-powered lobbyists allow that to happen? Will people who haven't properly read the Second Amendment allow that to happen?
Will lawmakers grow a pair and take on this issue, even though it may not be the popular thing to do, but it's the right thing to do, as they've told us in many a keynote speech? I'm not holding my breath, lest I end up with those poor souls at VTU.

It becomes clearer to me every day that our nation is run by gun nuts and God nuts who see no contradiction in being both. To coin a phrase, God help us.

67 comments:

Anonymous said...

Im not going outside on the 19 or 20 of April this year. Bogs, I need your help with something. Can you please call me when you have a chance?

Thanks.

Pete Bogs said...

anon - I could if I knew who you were...

Infinitesimal said...

you cannot become a police officer if your IQ is too high.

Black Panthers tried to invoke the right to bear arms and look at what happened to them, disbanded and incarcerated.

King George is dead. (well the first one, I mean)
But the constitution was written so that if the big brother types come breaking own your door, you have a fighting chance.

That is the real issue behind gun control.

I think guns, just like penises, should not be allowed out in public.

good post Bogs, but I am not sure where I stand on this issue.

I do not like guns, don't want to own one, but I do see how some people would want to keep them around

HOWEVER

lets not go selling them to every nutjob either.
how about the same psych test we use to hire preschool teachers, we use to screen gun buyers?

a few years back, btw, a gunman strolled into a preschool and opened fire here in town.
(he was a nutjob)

Anonymous said...

/bark bark bark

had even one person in the school, like a professor, been armed they couldve shut cho-bro down. instead of kneeling down and begging for mercy from the unmerciful.

they could have brought his intention to end his own life to completion much sooner. what you are advocating is the exact opposite of what makes sense. law abiding citizens would follow the rules and the bad guys would purchase whatever they wanted from the thriving black market in arms.

vanilllle: the black panthers were disbanded and incarcerated? then who were those guys shouting for a guilty verdict for the duke lacross players?

cheer up bogs if the demoncrats win in 2008 ya'll might get another janet reno type and you can take out religious gun fanatics whenever you like!

/grrrr

Hellpig said...

See what happens in a Gun Free Zone

dumbass liberal laws

Americans will never give up thier guns

If laws are passed then we will see the second civil war,not north against south but conservative against liberal,who do you think will win? LMAO

Pete Bogs said...

k9 - Canada, UK and many other countries have shown us that an unarmed populace does not mean a more endangered one... that's a gun-lover scare tactic that's long been disproven...

PS - later on I will elaborate on why else your scenario doesn't work ...

hellpig - you're right about the American people not being willing to give up their guns... but do you think anyone needs assault weapons??? seriously...

Anonymous said...

/bark bark bark

libs think they can legislate away tragic events.

better to be a person who is self reliant, and prepared. theres nothing about how they do it in eurabia i want to see happen here

not a scare tactic bogs. you are FREE to go ahead and ban firearms in your home.


'sup helly.

/grrrrr

Pete Bogs said...

k9 - to continue from earlier: the scenario you suggest, where armed students or teachers could have stopped the tragedy, has some serious problems...

let's say one or more students had a gun when this guy started shooting... they start shooting back at who they THINK the shooter is, and also hit other people fleeing the scene as well... possibly other armed heroes with the same idea... if guns start firing from all directions, a "good guy" very well could start shooting at another who he thinks is the "bad guy," but who isn't... so, we have more mayhem there... THEN... the cops arrive... with shots coming from different directions, they don't know who the bad guys are, either... so they start taking out the good guys with guns... this scenario is a bloodbath, too...

there's too much room for accidents in a panic situation like that... this also explains all the friendly fire deaths and civilian killings we keep hearing about in Iraq...

I don't see improved safety when everyone's packing their own heat... the only viable situation I see is to have more armed, uniformed guards around in case something like this happens...

ps: don't defend Koresh... if he hadn't taken a "you'll never take me alive, coppers!" stance no one would have been hurt... the guilt is 100% on his shoulders for the tragedy...


hellpig - though I think the Second Amendment is grossly misinterpreted, I am not suggesting taking away all Americans' guns... however, I am suggesting:

no assault weapons - these are war weapons

no gun show loopholes - if all you have to do is go to one of the many gun shows to get around the law, who wouldn't?

mandatory waiting periods - if you need a gun that fast, you probably shouldn't have one...

Pete Bogs said...

"you are FREE to go ahead and ban firearms in your home."

that's like saying I'm free to drive safely... but if everyone else is driving like a madman, I'm no safer for it...

Anonymous said...

Bogs, I will call you later. Are you there?

Infinitesimal said...

a) black kids kept getting hit at a street corner w/o a traffic light

b) black leaders requested a streetlight

c) city said no

d) more kids got hit

e) black adults started to "police" the intersection and were harassed by white motorists

f) they then brought in arms in attempt to
1) protect the kids
2) stop the harassment

In the meantime they began to organize in meetings, began community centers, began teaching centers, and law clinics...

then the government memo was handed down:

"flood the ghetto with heroin"

one panther was forced to begin dealing (his family was threatened)

others, like Mumia, were later incarcerated on charges that are still being disputed.

But the end result is, they are disbanded, they are not the same, the momentum has been canceled.

They exercised their right to bear arms because they felt threatened.

OK that's the end of my limited knowledge history lesson, i dunno about the current state of the Panthers, but i know it is not the same as what it might have been.

Jack K. said...

If most folks owned guns, they would probably be killed before they could use it. They are more likely to be killed with their own weapon.

Great post bogs.

More than 30 years ago I made sure there were no guns in my home. I do not regret it.

After all, if you expect only the best, what else can you attract?

Look to The Law of Attraction to learn more.

Keep up your good works.

Hellpig said...

500,000 deaths a year are prevented because the victim had a firearm

but you liberals don't want to hear about this it doesn't fit in with your ideology

YO Dawg..........

Anonymous said...

Hellpig. Are you gay?

Pete Bogs said...

jack - thanks for chiming in... and you reminded me of something I hadn't taken into consideration when I wrote this - the many, many kids who die when they find and play with daddy's gun...

anon - you're OT... it's not relevant...

Pete Bogs said...

k9 - PS: your position seems to stem from pride and not from reason... if something works, even if it's in another country, why not try it yourself?

Aunty Belle said...

HO boy...........

Folks, thar ain't no answer fer this--it is irrational to think we can ever prevent irrational acts of violence --doan matter iffin' the nut case is Jack the Ripper, Jeffery Dalmer, a suitcase bomber, or a gunman.


But Aunty is wif the Dawg and Hail-Pig...cause' iffin one professor per floor had heat the damage would have been eliminated.

And Bawgs, honey, Merry Olde Englond ain't violence free--and ain't no example to us.


An' Sugar, iffin' that odd Anon doan let up, ya' might wanna get a pop gun yoreself.

Pete Bogs said...

aunt b - welcome back!

I don't think, as k9 suggests, that we can legislate tragedies away... but I think more people having guns doesn't make for a safer world, as I elaborated on above... no country is violence-free... there are no ideal situations out there... but if you look at the ratio of gun deaths between us and, say, the UK, it's striking... 46 gun deaths in the UK last year, versus 579 in NYC alone! it doesn't take a degree to make the connection here...

UK v. NYC

I believe we don't need to make it any easier for people to massacre others... maybe there were many people killed in the UK by knives last year (I made that up), but you can't kill people rapid-fire with a knife, nor can you kill someone from 100 yards away... whether or not you believe the Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms, there has to be some reason in gun laws... right now there is very little...

Hellpig said...

Anon why do you ask is your father lonely again?

Hellpig said...

In the U.K. - since the gun ban the number of people injured by firearms in England and Wales has gone up drastically from 2,378 in 1998/99 to 4,001 in 2005/06. The number of homicides has remained the same (not dropped). Also, the number of crimes involving firearms has increased during the same period from 13,874 to 21,521. In 2003/04 the number was 24,094 (very close to what it was the year before as well)."


Try again Bogs your it works for other country doesn't hold water

Wasn't it a liberal judge who allowed cho outpatient care instead of holding and treating him as a inpatient,if he had Cho could not have purchased a gun under Va law

Pete Bogs said...

hellpig - you saw where I got my numbers from... if the number of murders with a gun was 46 for the year, that's a hell of a lot better than we have... this one incident took almost that many people... the UK was just an example - there are many, many more countries... I don't know about liberal judges and Cho's condition - I don't care to know a lot about this guy... I know he was a nut, and a gun owner... the result is kind of obvious...

Hellpig said...

your knee jerk reaction and inability to sift through the bullshit amazes me....

my stats are spot on

why don't liberals complain about the 4000+ Americans killed per year by Illegal Invaders

and another 4000+ a year killed by DWI or accident by the Criminal Invaders

since the year 2000 the number is over 50k,in another year in will pass total dead from Viet Nam

WHY ARE YOU SILENT ABOUT THIS?

Pete Bogs said...

this is not a knee-jerk reaction... I've always had the views I expressed in the post... tragedies like this just bring them back to the surface...

you take O'Reilly's position and I'll take Geraldo's... God help me... the fact that these murders are done by illegals (I don't have any stats on that) is inconsequential... anyone could have done these things... take a cue from your own beliefs that criminals will always be able to get guns... people will always be able to sneak into the country sometime... most murderers in the US are citizens... I am worried about the murders themselves, not that the perps were immigrants... we need to bust all criminals...

K9 said...

/bark bark bark

yeah that'd be real convenient for you bogshond, to write me off as a prideful koresh supportin' dawg. grrrherherhahaha...yeah, that's it . /snort

where to start, where to start?


in the case of david koresh, since he was all ""come and get me coppers" and guilty, youre cool with all those kids getting firebombed? talk about collateral bogs. you dont want innocent friendly fire at VT but you are FINE with all kinds of friendly fire when you dont like the perp. grrherhaha.

as to the self defense/ friendly fire point: you have to have not actually read what i wrote. i never said if everyone were armed i said if ONE person were armed. schools are no gun zones. concealed gun carriers are trained. if one per hall, or building or whatever were armed then that is an incintive to make a killer think twice. and if not, stop him sooner.

your logic is one that lets let 32 people get killed to avoid the off chance somebody might get flustered and kill the wrong person(s) in the process of avoiding 32 deaths!
that makes no sense.

on the point of eurabia there are plenty of stats facts, blogsfrom those countries, newspaper reports, even records played backwards that will tell you the defenseless native population of europe is at the mercy of violent "youths" who are fearless in the face of an unarmed appeasemnet society. a society who commits suicide thru appeasement and calls it tolerance. i dont have to prove it to you...your coast is full of euro flight. why not chat em up bogs and find out why? or read something besides the huff po.

funny that you thought W was trading freedom for security in the face of 3000 deaths by islam and you are ready to restrict freedoms because 32 at the hands of a madman makes you uncomfortable.

the hypocrisy of the left demonstrated.

to hell pigs point:

why are they silent?

because the only evils that libs hate are those they think america or americans commit.

rot on hell.
hey auntie belle! good to see ya back in the brawl.

/grrr

Anonymous said...

The USA, at all levels, is a country governed by fear.

Fear of God, not love of god.

Fear of foreigners.

Fear thy neighbour, not love thy neighbour.

So it's utterly predictable that the sad usuals will suggest that the way to stop campus shooters is to arm every student, rather than introduce even just slightly more restrictive gun sale laws.

I hear he had to tick a box saying he wasn't mad to buy a gun at the gunstore he went to.............that's certain to work isn't it?

I agree with the civil war comment.
It's coming.
Sooner the better, if you ask me.................
Might stop you exporting war everywhere else.

Pete Bogs said...

k9 - sounds like you and I agree with armed personnel at the school... I don't want to see a Wild West scenario with everyone having a gun on their side, ready to shoot...

I did have an issue with the accidental deaths of the Koresh kids... the siege had gone on for 50+ days (some people say Reno "rushed" her response - that's 7+ weeks!) before they attempted to enter the place by force... I watched the same footage you did... they started knocking down walls with heavy equipment and the place blew up... being a cardboard shack (loaded with ammo I might add), it went up fast... that's not fire-bombing... I know you are not a Koresh supporter... but blame the right people there... btw, this was one of the rare instances you'll see me side with the feds on...

as far as giving up rights, I am not for it... rather, I am for sensible measures...

for example:

not allowing friggin' box cutters (a knife, basically) on a goddamn airplane - good idea! did you know before 9/11 that you could bring them on? I didn't... I also assumed they were already x-raying baggage... who knew? prohibiting them was sensible...

on the other hand, illegally monitoring someone as a "terrorist threat" because they are anti-war is bullshit... that gets into ideological differences, which are not and never should be illegal...

in this KTU situation, I haven't suggested not selling guns... I don't care for them... if you want a pistol to protect your house, or a rifle to kill animals for fun, have at it... that's not what Amendment 2 was about as far as I'm concerned, but that's not my focus...

what I would like to see is partially listed above... no assault weapons except for military and SWAT teams... waiting periods... background checks... no guns for the mentally ill or people with criminal backgrounds... no "stockpiling" weapons, like David Koresh did...

I'm actually not the most unreasonable anti-gun person you'll encounter... even I think the police absolutely need guns, and the Brits don't have the best idea there... but they ought not shoot grooms on the night before their weddings, either...

have you talked to Q? is CenFlaBlogConf '07 gonna happen? we sure have a lot to talk about...

Infinitesimal said...

OK here's my 2 cents:

The kid at VT
had some
shall we call them "issues"

and people knew about them.

People in positions to address these issues, like for example, his writing instructor, who said: "I was afraid to leave him alone in the room with other students, the things that he wrote were so disturbing."

OK, well, she could have spoken to someone in the system who could have spoken with him and possibly ironed out the issues or recommended someone who could have, but in either case, put it on record somewhere that this kid, should not be sold multiple firearms.

We do have waiting periods, but we do not have personality tests for individuals who wish to purchase a gun, and I think that is where it's at. Time and time again it's proven that unstable people are getting their hands on firearms, and legally, at that. They then go on vigilante style shooting sprees before committing suicide themselves. And time and time again we ignore their message.

The message is:

I needed mental therapy and nobody gave it to me, and some people just made it worse, so I took them out of the game.

And no amount of armed guards or professors are going to change that message. It's a comment on society, it's deranged and horrible and unjust and futile... but it won't stop happening until someone hears it.

and that's my 2 cents.

Infinitesimal said...

what's a tick box?

Pete Bogs said...

infini - a tick box is what we Yanks would call a "check box," such as you might see on application or survey...

this guy obviously needed help... however, the problem is there's nothing illegal about being weird and/or writing weird stuff... the stalking is another matter... you have to do some extreme shit to be committed against your will, I believe... I don't know if he could have been put away... writing (very poorly)a sick, psycho play is not against the law... look at all the torture-themed films coming out (Hostel, Turistas, Saw, etc.)... should their writers be arrested? I am playing devil's advocate here, of course...

Hellpig said...

yeah the point is a liberal ass judge set Cho's ass free instead of heeding the warnings MULTIPLE warnings yet the libs believe in rehabilitation above safety of others as proven time and time again by child molesting rapists and murderers set free by liberal activist judges....

Liberalism is a FAILED expirement the entire EU is an example

liberals will not except fact or free speech that is not in line with thier socialist thinking,shit they even eat thier own. IE: Imus

which by the way was instigated by Hilary because Imus called her EVIL

ANON bring the civil war on,seeing how most of the right has the guns and 90% of the military is conservative,it will be a cleansing of the enemy within LIBERALS

liberals have ruined every thing American from it's inception and the communist started ACLU and the little brother CAIR are both Anti-American and Pro-terroist organisations,The USA is awakening to the hate and intolerance of the left and we will overcome the morally challenged subversion of the left....................


GOD is on the side of the Rightious

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Pete Bogs said...

God, if He exists, is looking down at us with disgust...

Infinitesimal said...

from the web.... for what it's worth:


""You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today," a snarling Cho says on video. "But you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off."


Authorities on Thursday disclosed that more than a year before the massacre, Cho had been accused of sending unwanted messages to two women and was taken to a psychiatric hospital on a magistrate's orders and was pronounced a danger to himself. But he was released with orders to undergo outpatient treatment.

Also, Cho's twisted, violence-filled writings and menacing, uncommunicative demeanor had disturbed professors and students so much that he was removed from one English class and was repeatedly urged to get counseling."

So, he seemingly did not have a tickbox saying he was not mad. And if he did, it was a mistake. And here lies the problem.

thanks Bogs, for creating a forum, I just couldn't at my place.

Infinitesimal said...

Bogs, I am in a world of pain right now, so forgive me if i am not succinct

but, i do think that these films like 'Saw' and 'Touristas' that are more and more dominant today are making the violence more commonplace in the minds of people who watch them.

I know what you mean about writing and censorship, but at what point do we start to draw a line and say, OK, if you write about raping your mother with the arm of a recently aborted third trimester fetus while five other vile and horrific other things are going on in the meantime...if you write about THAT, we are going to have to insist that you see a mental health professional... Or should we call it a contemporary classic in modern literature and teach it to our ninth graders?


Again, from the same online article:
"There has been some speculation, especially among online forums, that Cho may have been inspired by the South Korean movie "Oldboy." One of the killer's mailed photos shows him brandishing a hammer - the signature weapon of the protagonist - and in a pose similar to one from the film.

The film won the Grand Prix prize at the Cannes Film Festival in 2004. It is about a man unjustly imprisoned for 15 years. After escaping, he goes on a rampage against his captor."

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0407/415821.html

Infinitesimal said...

PS: You really cannot become a police officer if your IQ is too high, did you know that?

and

PPS:

come leave a non-gun related haiku at my post pleeeease

Aunty Belle said...

Bawgs, thanks fer the welcome back--

Ain't no surprise that iffin' you wanna mention a foreign country fer an example, I'se in favor of Switzerland--whar ' a man must keep a gun and know how to use it.

Hail Pig is right on as ter the rising violence in EU. Looky, darlin' why ya wanna confine it to "gun deaths"? last time I looked around, dead was dead. Stiffs doan care if it were a gun or a bomb or anthrax or an arsonist out fer a stroll. The measure should be "violent deaths" not "gun deaths" (Come ter think of it, I'd rather have had death by Cho than death by Dahlmer)

An' c'mon! Hail Pig is makin' an important observation--illegals cause 50K deaths and youse folks is yawning? Is it accurate, or compassionate-- to say that those 50K deaths "inconsequential... anyone could have done these things..." NOpe. Looky, the illegals did these "things" Bawgs--iffin' they warn't here them deaths would not have happened...and the law agrees: In Fla iffin' youse toodling about on a suspended liscense and a drunk runs the red light and whacks ya--YOU is guilty, not the drunk--under the law, iffin' you had not been drivin' the dern accident would not have happened.

In the same way, iffin' the illegals had not have been here,
50 K Americans would be alive today.


Now, I'se wif' ya about some heat on the halls--an' that will come--watch fer it.

Seems to me that Infini is onto somethin'....Cho was beggin' fer mental health help and the PC system refused his cry of
"stop me. " Had his record been what it shoulda been, no gun would have benn issued to him...but then, a determined sociopath knows whar' ter git anything illegal it wants ter git.

Aunty Belle said...

Contessa also wrote:

"I know what you mean about writing and censorship, but at what point do we start to draw a line and say, OK, if you write about raping your mother with the arm of a recently aborted third trimester fetus while five other vile and horrific other things are going on in the meantime...if you write about THAT, we are going to have to insist that you see a mental health professional... Or should we call it a contemporary classic in modern
literature and teach it to our ninth graders? "

Now, thas' a brilliant comment.

fatty said...

there are a few things about American social debates that have always confused me and the gun debate is one of them.

So I know the Constitution [as some argue] promises that individuals should be allowed to form militia and that means they have the right to own weapons. I get that gun use abuse makes many people want to change the laws to prevent misuse.

Here, you need a license to own a gun and various requirements are involved in getting it and keeping it. It still means that all individuals who are not convicted felons, illegally in the country or whatever, and are above 18 are allowed to own a gun. What is stopping a system similar to this being implemented?

I know I'm oversimplifying things, but I'm sure you can see why I am confused that such debates exist.

Pete Bogs said...

contessa – people have to take responsibility for what they do... that includes writing scripts, and killing people... I do give license to writers (I am one), because I think the onus is on the reader/viewer to maintain a grasp of reality, whatever images they are shown...

according to this article, Cho should never have been able to buy the guns legally, due to his mental state:

federal regulations not followed

aunt b – you can't blame our ills on immigrants... I knew once I saw this guy was from SK that that would become an issue for some... nationalities are irrelevant; people in the US can get dangerous guns easily... I don't know where you and hell are getting this notion that liberalism kept Cho on the streets... we're not taking credit for that...

why haven't any gun supporters addressed my assault weapons points yet???

fatty – the US Constitution gives very specific criteria for the bearing of arms; gun lovers here simply choose to ignore that... as for why we can't implement good laws, I think it's because many gun owners resent ANY interference by the gov’t on the issue, as irrational as that is…

the "UK v. NYC" link above has a quote from an Italian about US gun ownership being encoded into our DNA... interesting perspective...

Anonymous said...

I have a tick box. It is a place where I keep all the ticks I have taken off of my body. I keep them to remind me of the memories and the good times we had together.

Anonymous said...

/bark bark bark

bogshond: im leaving otown today. i didnt have a car so how does somewhere in the beginning week of june sound? i know AB and Q are willin.

to the assault rifles: i wouldnt flinch at restrictions for those. speaking for myself, shotguns are my choice for the situation known as flustered....cant miss.

to anon: "america is all about fear" if it helps you feel superior bloodsucker go ahead and believe it. as long as i have daggers and sunlight; no worries. grrrherherhaha


/grrrrrr

Infinitesimal said...

Auntie

Are you sure Cho was an "illegal"?

He was, after all, enrolled in college, had been enrolled in highschool, and middleschool too.

He grew up in America.

Two of the girls he shot were in his graduating class.

Child of immigrant parents, yes, but illegal, where is your data coming from? Is it true?

...and thanks for the compliment.

Pete Bogs said...

dog - early June is ok... needs to be at night during the week, or anytime on the weekends... O-Town area?

infini - Cho was a resident alien...

Hellpig said...

Pete Bogs said...
God, if He exists, is looking down at us with disgust...

I agree God is disgusted by the Liberals

Dawg HOWLLLLLLLL,you ain't lying if the crime isn't committed by America the left don't give a rats ass

Bogs assault rifles don't care ban'em


Cho was allowed to buy a gun because Va law doesn't restrict outpatient mental care,but it does if the patient was treated in house,which leads us back to the Liberal judge allowing him back onto the streets.......

Still silent I see about the 50k deaths caused by criminal invaders

The EPA and green party are silent as well to the environmental damage caused by the criminal invaders.......

Anonymous said...

Hellpig, are you?

Hellpig said...

Anon ask your mommy she'll tell you,tell her she still owes me $40.00 for last Tuesday

ANON are you Mentally Challenged?

your dad said something to the effect when I was thrusting a black dildo up his ass

I suppose you are jealous I can ram a dildo up your ass too,but you have to pay the same as your parents.....

Pete Bogs said...

anon, hell - enough, boys!

hell - I have addressed the 50k crimes... I don't think the fact that they're here illegally is relevant... anyone can commit crimes... it's like the O'Reilly/Geraldo argument, as above...hough

as far as legality, though, I do support people having to come into the US legally... interesting, your boy Bush wants this guest worker program... he may be more tolerant of illegals than you give him credit for...

hellpig, I don't focus too much on immigration because I think some of the arguments you present are equal amounts xenophobia and legit concern for your country... did you see Gangs Of NY? people have historically dubbed themselves "real Americans," and considered other groups not, even though we are a melting pot that was founded on immigration... well, that and colonialism... the face of America has changed over time, and will continue to do so...

I do think we need to be careful who we let into the US... and how... but I will not turn immigrants into scapegoats for what's wrong with America... too many cultures have done things like that in the past, with bad results...

Aunty Belle said...

Bawgs ya say:
"you can't blame our ills on immigrants."

.............ain't blaming ills on immies, I'se blamimng DEATHS on illegals as per Hail Pig's stats whar' 50 K Americans is dead since 2000 at hands of the illegals--however they dealt death, whether intended, as accidents with DUI..whatever means, fact is if the illegals were not here, those deaths would not have occurred.

Infinitessima, no, honey, I am not saying Cho was illegal. My point was the 50K deaths that Hail Pig mentioned. An' the compliment was earned.

Some sanity here: someone will "dominate" the world. Never been no time in history when some folks weren't trying to be king of the hill. Nothin' new here.

Only question is who do you want to dominate? The Saudi/Jihadi axis? The Chinese Maoists? The icey-eyed Putins of the world?

GO stand in front of yore mirror and ask the reflection that question...then move to Mecca or Beijing or Moscow and git on wif yore new life.

The "West" ain't perfect, but it is the least worst of the "dominator" classes. Doan throw out no stuff about what we done wrong--it is all a question of proportionality.

We's the least worst, no matter what we done--know how we know that? Cause everybody wants to come here--thas' why we got so many illegals. They know what some of you natives ain't figgered out--we is the least worst.

An to stay that way, Sweet Thangs, and for the sake of the whole world ,we'uns must enforce our culture, our legal system.

Pack all illegals up an airmail them back whar' they come from. Let em' git in line to immigrate, let em pass muster on matters of speakin' ENGLISH, being disease free, being sane, having an education and a marketable skill, no jail records..etc.

Elsewahr' Aunty done noted she is Okay wif' immigrants--thas' fine--but LEGAL immigrants who go through a process that helps all of us be a country that can be that beacon the original folks came fer.

Pete Bogs said...

aunt b - you don't hear me talk well of Saudi Arabia, Russia or China on here... to the contrary...

I agree with most of your criteria for immigrants...

Anonymous said...

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha HA.

Hellpig said...

Bogs cage your resident troll or I will.

If interested Bogs I will link you,but I know how you liberals hate facts....

Nice with the subject change to Bush

Aunty sorry for the language

Anonymous said...

Dear Hellpig.

I'm sorry about what I said.

I will not do it again.

Sincerely,

Hellpig's Former Troll

Bogs, please tell him that I really do mean it. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

(slipping in quietly for a peek)

Shhhhh!
(Don't tell anyone I am here).
What is terrorism?
Is this not the real terrorism that pervades civil, liberal societies?

There are 200 million privately owned guns in USA.

30,000 Americans die each year from firearms murders, suicides and accidents.

65,000 are injured.

So I guess it is ok as long as you are not one of those 95,000 involved including those who have been touched by such tragedies.

Maybe you could develop a new warning system that allows your fellow citizens time if the Brits,Spanish, French or the Native Americans, or your slave population go on the rampage and need to be shot? Might make the con-s-tit-you-shun more realistically up-to-date, caring and relevant.

(Tiptoeing out again into cyberspace to take my liberal, leftie, lovin' self back to where I belong).

Shhhhhhhhh!

(Kinda miss ya!)

K9 said...

/bark bark bark

vanilles point about the violence culture in movies and music is an important one. this is a business dominated by libs. they make it, profit from it, and export it around the world the most banal imagery possible. and then live behind walls and have bodyguards. meanwhile they advocate for us plebes that gotta slog it out in the real world what we can and cant have for protection from an environment they help to create.

/grrr

Infinitesimal said...

well,

i just went to that website.

ummmmm

i do not recommend it.

K9 said...

/bark bark

10-4 on the weeknight in june in otown. i dont expect you to give up a date night for us ether buddies.

/howl

Bird said...

bogs,interesting post and some of the discussion is equally interesting - some valid points on both sides.

but i am abandoning the thread because of the incivility of some posters.

i'll swoop back another day to visit.

Hellpig said...

oh my GOD a liberal with morals,maybe Bird isn't a liberal after all?

the words I used are what i have learned from the liberal media and entertainment,and the hypocrisy amazes me....bird you live in the cesspool of the morally challenged,yet you find what I say offensive,I thought liberals were tolerant.

San Fransico is the most uncivil place in America

K9 said...

/bark bark bark

what incivility? you mean the troll who used this conversation to peddle his site for buggering children?

helly: the queen bee of libs will talk to a thug and assassin in syria but not fox news. these guys have standards! grrrherherhahaha

come back boyie. you can peck the troll or do a dropping.

/grrr

Hellpig said...

How can one abandon a thread on their first post?

Dawg don't get me started on that terrorist appeasing b*tch

What America has in store for it if by some fluke they win in '08

APPEASEMENT/DHIMMITUDE

At least the libs can't drill holes in the heads of a fetus anymore

One step closer to overturning the Liberal laws made by activist Supreme Court Judges

Anonymous said...

Bogs-- I think it's about time that you collect that f**kin' swine's head.

He appears to have Mad Boars disease.
He uses the term Liberal like a pre civil war redneck used the word nigger. It is getting out of hand. Not every person that is not of his exact mindset is a terrorist loving liberal asshole commie puke.

Hellpig said...

Troll Said: "Not every person that is not of his exact mindset is a terrorist loving liberal asshole commie puke."

Wrong just Liberals,not every person as you suggest

Name a liberal who isn't?

And I don't hate your mother in fact I love her real good

so tell us troll how long have your been a pedophile?

was it when your daddy came into your room late a night?

she said...

here's a conservative idea: how about the blog admin gets to decide which heads to collect.

Anonymous said...

Hellpig. I think there are several trolls here. I told you I would not harass you anymore. I will not.

Hellpig said...

nope it's all you troll

In Internet terminology, a troll is someone who intentionally posts derogatory or otherwise inflammatory messages about sensitive topics in an established online community such as an online discussion forum to bait users into responding.[1]

Infinitesimal said...

Boggsy

I am nice and drunk now, and gonna TRY to work on a humorous post I would ask the same of you.

New Post Please!!

Damn.

She (the bartender) invented a new color tonight... it's called grey goose and cranberry pink

*hic*

BIIIIG

drunk
XXOO

Pete Bogs said...

I'll say this thread is spent... it's degenerated into ugliness and scared away some of my pals... so, enough of the BS... I'll have something new up soon...

dog - did you get a sex change operation??? lol

Hellpig said...

no bogs he is refering to your trolls link to his pedophile site