Thursday, July 20, 2006

Mamas, Don’t Let Your Stem Cells Grow Up To Be Gayboys

President Bush has vetoed the Senate’s stem cell bill, as promised. This was one of two controversial bills Congress had on its slate this week, as earlier the House of Representatives rejected a constitutional amendment outlawing gay marriage.

There’s a connection between these two bills, though it’s not too obvious.

If Bush were a thinking man, he’d realize that some of those stem cells he’s so protective of may one day grow into gay people, gay people who’ll expect things, like the right to marry or the right to be free from discrimination. He’s missed a golden opportunity here to combine two key election-year issues for his party into a single solution.

Bush could have been the president who helped us cure diseases and ensured a world with less gays. Gay marriage would eventually be a non-issue!

The scary thing is Bush actually might believe some of these notions.

He objects to harvesting a bundle of insentient,
insensate cells that may be used to save others from suffering and death under the delusion that it’s “murder.” Inexplicably, at the same time he doesn’t seem bothered by the ongoing carnage he started in Iraq, or his friends started in Lebanon.

Bush also doesn’t care that most of the country wants stem cell research. Science doesn't matter when you believe global warming is a theory, cells are human beings or promiscuity is worse than cervical cancer.

But
what's Bush got to lose in signing the veto? He's a lame duck. Yup, seriously lame.

37 comments:

fatty ~ said...

A country equipped in money, resources and technology to conduct life-saving research. Blown by a minority of people who's misguided moral values hide the actual facts which they don't know anyway. 8 years the research has been waiting to be conducted.

Bird said...

the trouble is he keeps wreaking havoc on his way out the door.

hey - is that phrase "compassionate conservative" still bandied about?

i caught part of georgie porgie's speech to the NAACP this morning. not for long though. from what i saw, he is not very well received.

liberalbanana said...

Yup, I'm with Fatty. Well said.

K9 said...

/bark bark bark

well fatty thats a great point. not one single human trial has been done. so where is this science? this absolute fact that lives will be saved? and do ya'll even know what has been vetoed? government sponsorship. private biocorps are FREE to proceed.

in the journal "science" a team of doctors have reported that adult stems have proved more promising for some diseases than fetal.

and ladies, i might ask, someday if some misguided moral jerks cant stop it, and the government gets the big green light, when they come to you to donate embryos for the greater good what are you going to do. how does "breeder" sound to ya?

and while we're on it libs, if you are so worried about natural resources, population explosion and or control, and darwinian order, why dont you roll with the natural force in the world known as death?

/grrrrr

Pete Bogs said...

k9 - the government may have banned government funding, but they did it against the will of the people... we want our money to go to this... not everyone, but most... even that loon Frist wants this... and the other issue is the reason "why" the government won't fund research... the mistaken idea that this is murder... way off base for a country that's been up to what we're doing... he's just catering to that fringe base again, just like he did pushing the gay marriage thing...

how did an Aussie get the first post on here? get to bed young lady! it's 15 hours later there!

lol (love ya!)

bird - not to worry, a full "transcript" of Bush's NAACP speech will be on this site tomorrow...

ardlair said...

Much as I would love to jump onto the bashbushbandwagon - I don't usually miss a trick - this is a more complex issue than you are giving him credit for.

There is no promise of success here ; and embryos, though probably not sentient, will usually progress to be healthy human babies.

So, you are accepting killing - usually a moral wrong- for a possible benefit only. The good therefore may not outweigh the bad.

Read FATTY's blog today - the Heinz dilemma covers the same issues.

Pete Bogs said...

there's no killing in using a clump of cells... teenagers "kill" more humans by jerking off and killing all those sperm than stem cell research ever could... wait, I see a controversial new bill "coming!"

I stand by my comments... someone who thinks destroying a small clump of cells is killing while he's waging a costly war overseas has no moral or rational ground to stand on...

Pete Bogs said...

PS: there's no promise of success with major surgeries... there's no promise of success with organ transplants... we do them anyway...

Jack K. said...

Do all stem cells get to a womb? If not, what happens to them?

K9 said...

/bark bark bark

bogga please! stems are fertilized embryos. all that stuff in your hand is tadpoles. howl! (i read your comment on the pudding wars)

/grr

rusty shakelford said...

This is really all about a bunch of liberals who cant accept an alternative view-point. Most conservatives belive life begins at conception. Liberals who cant prove otherwise just dismiss this belief and call conservatives close minded. Hypocritical if you ask me. Liberals should pay attention to one thing. A leader with principles who stands by them. We knew Bush's stance on stem cell research when the majority of America voted for him. This President will not change his mind just because of some polling from the press.

Pete Bogs said...

rusty - exactly, Bush doesn't give a shit about what the country thinks, and never has... principles aren't principles when they are hypocritical... see my war comments for clarification... there's also a vast difference (not a vas deferens, k9) between principle and ignorance... Bush is ignorant, and is pandering to the extreme right with this...

k9 - it's not in my hand... it's on the keyboard...

rusty shakelford said...

I always find it interesting how a national election that elected a conservative majority in congress and among the state governors, and a conservative President means nothing, but a poll done by the press, well that is a mandate from the nation.

The "ongoing carnage he started in Iraq"? last I checked it was not the American troops who where planting IEDs. It is not the American troops who are killing civilians. It doesn't even make sense to compare the war in Iraq to the harvesting of embryos for spare parts. Wars are fought out of necessity. Bush enforced a cease fire agreement that was rendered meaningless by Clinton. Sadam was threatening us with force and kicking out weapon inspectors. It is better to kill someone else from another country then let them come over here and kill us. I know that offends your liberal sensitivities but it has been an accepted truth since the beginning of time. Also a accepted truth is it is wrong to kill the young so you may live longer.

What makes you so sure that life does not begin at conception?

Stem Cell research is a shot in the dark. Without even considering the moral repercussions, I don't think the evidence for benefits from stem cell research warrants government funding.

Pete Bogs said...

rusty - Bush started the Iraq war, plain and simple... Hussein was a dick but he wasn't a danger to us... Iraq has become a danger to us now... the carnage works in both directions... 6000 Iraqis were killed in the last month or two, and most of them were not "insurgents"

rusty shakelford said...

Well I guess your right, so long as you choose to ignore recent history (but hey were the ignorant ones) 6000 is a pretty low number, at a minimum I would say 32K.
Its not our fault Iraq choose to embed their military in with the civilian population.

Pete Bogs said...

rusty - I forgot to mention... that consternative majority in Congress - they are the ones who PASSED the stem cell bill... 2/3 of the Senate voted for it, and with a Republicant majority, that means an awful lot of them voted for it...

Pete Bogs said...

PS: apparently human life is precious, but not when it's the life of a foreigner...

stem cells aren't "the young," they're cells... and why do YOU have an issue with the old benefiting off the lives of the young? that's what we're doing with the deficit right now - enjoy the fruits now and let our kids starve tomorrow... more hypocrisy...

presidentbobo said...

When South Korea, China and India produce the break-throughs from stem cell research everyone - yes, even President Bush, will be lined up to benefit from the research. I know first-hand about those little clumps of cells that Bush is so worried about. Many are never used and even if they were most do not lead to implantation and live birth. The failure rate is heart-breakingly high. I am sorry, but that is the reality. Quit worring about cell clumps and start trying to save the living you f*cking idiots.

rusty shakelford said...

If you think about it you are just a collection of cells. No different than an unborn child. The conservative majority did vote pass the bill, but there was not a big enough majority to override the veto. So the people have spoken. They say no.
Deficit spending is now on par with harvesting the parts of children. When you get a credit card someone had better warn the kids in your neighborhood, they're next.

Bird said...

wow.

stunned.

some of the logic posted here about when life begins leads me to this conclusion:

everytime any of that sticky white stuff comes out of a man's dick, he'd best gather it up and have it properly stored - because it's life pure and simple and should be revered; thus letting it just wallow about would be tantamount to killing a human. we'll need to build and staff sperm-storage centers throughout the country.

and we should develop egg harvesting stations -now this will be costly folks, we'll need stations all about. and all women will have to be chart themselves - so they can identify when they are ovulating (another component to sex ed) and go to an egg-harvesting station - have those eggs harvested instead of allowing them to filter down and bleed out. if we women don't have our eggs harvested - well - that must be murder too.

this will be extraordinarily costly. i suspect the wealthy can handle it - maybe even the super-rich can have private egg-harvesting stations and sperm-storage centers in their very own homes, but the middle class on down will struggle with this, i'm sure. and i doubt the government will provide the necessary funds for egg-harvesting stations and sperm-storage centers in the poor, inner-cites or in remote rural areas.

we'll have to cease and desist the war - all that money could go to developing these egg-collecting and sperm storage centers.

but it'll be worth it - after all - eggs and sperms, as a collection of cells, are no less than a sentient, living, breathing human and thus we need to preserve them.

maybe we could just persuade people to stop having sex, jerking off, and there's got to be a way to medically prevent women from ovulating until they wish to produce children for the state. yeah -that's the ticket - we should put all our money into that kind of research.

ardlair said...

Well.
Nice to see medical ethics reduced to a number, Dr Bogs.

OK to prevent the development ( I won't say kill) of a single cell, or 8 cells, or 16 cells it seems?

At what number of cells would you say that we should not prevent the development ( i won't say kill) of a potential human to undertake medical research?

If you prefer gestational times, at what age, in the lab or in utero, do you think it becomes unacceptable to sacrifice the embryo/fetus/baby/toddler/adult to undertake medical research?

What are your own threshholds?

Pete Bogs said...

"Every Sperm Is Sacred"

I look to science to present a threshhold for the beginning of life... not a book of fairy tales or someone's personal belief...

you lose a whole lot of cells when you ejaculate, or cut your hair, or cut your nails for that matter... doesn't make it murder... were are all made of many, many cells... when we stop being like that glop inside a chicken's egg, for example, and start to think and feel and breath, that is life...

ardlair said...

Mmmmm.

So somewhere between soft boiled and hard boiled, is that about it?

Seems to be quite a leap from albumen ( if that is the glop to which you refer) and

think
feel
breath.

So where on that path Dr Bogs, where?

Where would you draw the line on sacrificing a potential human for medical research?

Anything below the legal abortion limit?

Pete Bogs said...

again, I am not a scientist... science, not religion, needs to determine when life starts... do these cell clumps react to stimuli? that's a good place to start... no, I'd go well below the threshold of an abortion... I'd go to within days of conception, if indeed one happened that way... it's hard to call the combination of liquids in a petrie dish conception...

ardlair said...

So why have different threshholds for the two?

One threshold for abortion, when the potential human is sacrificed for the benefit of one or two or maybe three other people, and another threshold, apparently lower, where the potential human is sacrificed for the benefit of many millions or maybe none.

Doesn't seem to square, does it?

But maybe that's just my wee muddled mind.

Pete Bogs said...

in one instance, you are forcing a woman to have a child... in another, you are not allowing this group of cells to become one... the former is an individual choice... the later was something the president made an individual choice against, but he made it for all of us... that's the difference... it's not one woman's body, it's a group of cells that could be useful to us... no one sees an issue with organ transplants... at least, I don't think so...

ardlair said...

Well, thankyou for clearing that one up!!!!!

CROAK said...

Um as the Scientist said:"Whoever the Presidents science teacher was should be ashamed'.
Most of the 'embryos' would never ever grow into a baby. During a process the nucleus is removed. Only the cells are used that can be encouraged to grow into any tissue ( NOT a full human).
Now there are some left over fertilised eggs that may be donated for science but that is a minority and few.
So the ignorance is perpetuated by the free world's stupid leader!!!
HE will bomb babies, but now support science. I noticed Arnie in California is going to give funding anyway.
Onya!

CROAK said...

.."NOT support science" I meant.

LaPopessa said...

You're right! I can't believe nobody has ever put that together before. If we save ALL those stem cells, how many would be gay? Even if one was gay and wanted to get married . . . the horror! the horror!

What WAS the president thinking?

mjd said...

I am not sure what to think about stem cell research, but I do agree with the following sentiment:

Since our President vetoed today the embryonic stem cell research bill passed by the Senate because "it's inappropriate for the federal government to finance something that many people consider murder," we invite you and your friends to join with us in e-mailing our President and respective Congressional Senators and Representatives requesting that, federal monies currently used to conduct the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan plus support
Israel in the current Middle East Crisis, be withdrawn immediately since many people consider such wars to constitute murder.

Pete Bogs said...

mjd - true that!

infinitesimal said...

Personally,

You can't have anything of mine, Blood, hair, organs and stem cells included.

I also do not want a needle or a knife to come near me.

So that is my opinion... on Me.
Anyone else is not my concern.

So I am either a conservative, or an Anarchist.

I think it's more likely that I am conservative anarchist.

I don't care what you people do with your own stem cells, but keep offa MINE!

that is all i can say on the matter.

and Bogs... SO glad you're no longer writing about dangling labias.... (shudders)

Pete Bogs said...

Contessa - that's fair enough... I am no longer an organ donor, I am ashamed to admit... when it comes down to them deciding whether I live or get used for parts, I don't trust them to make the right decision...

dangling labias, is that some kind of grammatical thing? oh, that's dangling participles... there's really no "anymore" to it, as I write whatever's got my attention at the moment... Bogsblog is like a box of chocolates - you know never know yadda yadda yadda...

infinitesimal said...

yeah,

I've hear the horror stories too of people who were as Billy Crystal put it:

Only MOSTLY dead.

that is, they had a chance to survive, but it would be a slim one so the executive choice was made to "harvest" their organs and then they were just being kept alive until recipient was prepped.

YIKES!

considering these tales come from those who made miraculous recoveries prior to being "harvested".

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